Col. Annette Leijenaar, the United Nations' Department of Peace- keeping Operations (DPKO) chief of training, was given responsibility for all United Nations-related military and civilian police peacekeeping training in January 2000. Before her appointment, she spent 27 years serving in the armed forces of South Africa.

In September 2000, on her way back to the United Nations Head-quarters from East Timor, Leijenaar visited the Center of Excellence where she spoke with James T. Wigdel, the Center's media coordinator. She also took time out to chat with Hawai'i Pubic Radio's Beth-Ann Kozlovich. Leijenaar shared her views on East Timor, peace-keeping operations and the role of women in PKO. Following is a compilation of both interviews. The Hawai'i Public Radio interview originally aired on the Morning Edition Show on September 26, 2000. The interview at the Center took place the following day.

JW: You just returned from a three-week tour. Would you talk a bit about where you have been, and what you have been doing?

AL: We started our visit in Bosnia-Herzegovina where we are participating with the mission to create a peacekeeping support unit for the parties involved in the Bosnia-Herzegovina environment to get the Croats, the Serbs, and the Bosnians working together in peacekeeping operations. That was the main focus of our time there. We are looking into training issues in the mission, [specifically] civilian police training in Bosnia because my unit is responsible for civilian police training. We are also looking into a critical matter within UN missions to develop a program we will call 'Mission Headquarters Orientation Program for Key Role Players, Civilians, Civilian-Police, and Military.' The aim of that program will be to create an integrative team to set off missions, and to continuously throughout the existence of the mission have an integrative management process.

From there we went to Zimbabwe. I spent one day in Zimbabwe to have discussions with the officer commanding the regional peacekeeping training center in Harare, which is the regional peace- keeping training center for the Southern African Development Corporation community, which conducts peacekeeping training for the whole area in collaboration with the Danish government. I then moved on to a peacekeeping seminar in India, which focused on peacekeeping in the year 2015. That was in preparation for a paper that will be delivered in November 2001 to the UN. [The paper will be written] in terms of how the group who are involved see the future of peacekeeping operations over the next fifteen years.

JW: What group is this?

AL: It is a group of countries: Jordan, Sweden, South Africa, and India together with the Pearson Peacekeeping Center in Canada, the [U.S. Army's] Peace Keeping Institute at Carlisle [Barracks], and a few others. They invite guest speakers for their events. I addressed the seminar on the relations amongst the different parties in UN missions from an integrative management approach - - the whole issue of planning, organizing, leadership and control within UN missions in an orchestrated fashion.

JW: And from there?

AL: From there we went to East Timor with several objectives ... first looking at civilian police training, as well as discussing the issue of the mission headquarters orientation program ... we specifically looked at the creation of a training cell. Within all the UN missions not a single one has a training cell for military forces. We are looking into pre-deployment training: what our country is doing in terms of pre-deployment training, and also in-mission briefings when contingents arrive, what sort of orientation or training programs are conducted, and then also continuous training for military forces to keep up their skills whilst in mission.

The last leg of the visit is to discuss collaboration with the Center of Excellence on peacekeeping training in the Asia-Pacific region.

BK: For most people, peacekeeping missions in East Timor and in other nations are things that they read about but for you it is all too real. Can you make it real for me too?

AL: The best would be if you could visit the place to see what is really going on - the reality on the ground is that [East Timor] is a country that has been torn apart. At the moment on the surface it looks very peaceful. The mission there has created a peaceful standard of living for the people. But you need to develop a total, new administration, and a new government. The people of East Timor are being prepared to create an administration. The mission is starting up that whole process. What you read in the papers you will not see in Dili: [you will see] peaceful children walking around, people going to school, buildings being refurnished, new building projects, the mission assisting in developing a local police force for East Timor.

BK: Is what we have here then, an inflated case of reality, or are we just getting that sense of hyperbole to capture headlines?

AL: I think the reports you get are real but, as reflected in most media, they are a very small percentage of reality. On the border between West and East Timor, you will find militia. When we were there last week there had been some militia activities, but there has been nothing serious*. I think that the situation, under the current circumstances, is very calm.

BK: And well under control?

AL: Yes, I think to the extent that situation can be under control; it is under control, especially in East Timor.

JW: When you were on the ground in East Timor, did you visit the troops?

AL: Yes. We visited the Jordanian Battalion in Oecussi, which is the enclave in West Timor. [It was] a very interesting experience. The impression we got was that the Jordanians were totally prepared for the job, and I was very positive to see how well they are integrating with the local population as well as with the NGO's and the mission itself. We also visited the Philippine Battalion, which is in East Timor; also excellent work that the guys are doing out there - a very good operation with the local population - no problems whatsoever.

JW: How is their morale?

AL: The morale of the troops of which we saw was very positive. Very good leadership, and to the extent we could take notice of, they were well trained for this specific task. We discussed pre-deployment training with the twenty-four countries that have troops on the ground in East Timor, and got hold of the outline of all their training packages before coming to the mission. What we will do with that is try to standardize pre-deployment training for contingents to go to missions.

JW: So this is for the future?

AL: Yes.

BK: What is the projection of how it will be in the next year or so?

AL: I think the next year is the biggest challenge that not only the UN mission, but also all the parties involved in East Timor, will face in creating an atmosphere that is safe for elections to be held and conducted. But even more so, to create a favorable situation for the creation of a total, new government and administration, for which the people in East Timor must make themselves ready. They have never done that before. And the mission has a double-handed draw: on the one hand, it is a normal UN peacekeeping mission, and on the other hand it is participating in the transition of East Timor to create that environment for a new government.

BK: And do you see the government succeeding ... beyond the creation of it, is it something that is going to be lasting?

AL: Yes. I cannot see that it will be successful unless it has the support of the developed world for at least up to ten years. You cannot create an administration without supporting it financially, providing expertise and professionals for at least ten years.

JW: Let's switch from East Timor to the United Nations. You have been with the United Nations since January and you have been with the South African Army for how long?

AL: Since 1974. It's my twenty-seventh year.

JW: That's a long time ...

AL: Yes. It's a lifetime.

JW: Before going to the UN in January, were you involved in training ?

AL: Yes, I was in South Africa. Within Defense Headquarters we have a Joint Training Division. I was one of the Senior Staff Officers in the division.

JW: And how did you make the transition to the United Nations?

AL: It is a big transition, because South Africa was excluded for more than twenty years from participation in the United Nations. So Africa itself has not got a lot of UN peacekeeping experience. But being military, your overall background from military training gives you such a good foundation that the switch to training is not difficult. I think it is the switch to UN peacekeeping training that you have to make. And that takes a lot of reading, listening and doing extra to fill that gap.

JW: How did you get to the UN in the first place?

AL: Last year, I think was the first time that vacancy announcements from DPKO were made available in the South African National Defense Force. I happened to see these vacancy announcements and when I looked up the one for the head of the Training Unit* it looked as if I would be a suitable candidate. So, I just applied for the job, not really thinking that I would ever be considered because there is this gap in our experience...but I got the job.

JW: And you replaced Peter Leentjes? (Leentjes is a training advisor at the Center of Excellence).

AL: Yes I replaced Peter. But of course Peter left and for several months the training unit was without a chief, so there was no hand-over from Peter to myself. It imposed its challenges.

JW: From the time that you first applied for the job until now, what was your view going into job on the role of peacekeeping in the United Nations compared with your view with DPKO now and peacekeeping operations in general?

AL: My observation before going into it was sort of narrow...but also broad, observing from outside. You look from the outside to the inside and it's like looking through a small hole and seeing a big picture...but it is still a very small picture! Moving into the organization, you realize how complex it is. It is a very big organization and I think it has its ways and its own culture in terms of functioning - and to be representative of a hundred and eighty-nine countries is not an easy task to manage properly!

I think the UN has, for the immediate future, tremendous challenges in terms of modern management skills. The DPKO is, with the Brahimi Report (see story p.31-35), going through the challenge of amending the structure, the whole organization of peacekeeping operations within the United Nations. My impression is that it is not run that badly, but yes, some changes can improve the productivity of peacekeeping operations.

JW: Within the United Nations and peacekeeping in general?

AL: Yes. The challenge is to write mandates in such a fashion that they are flexible enough to amend during the course of the existence of a mission.

I need to mention the political role, the active involvement of member states. If member states are not actively involved...well, the UN is only as strong as the weakest link of the member states. That is very critical. I would first start in New York within DPKO, with the planning of peacekeeping operations.

BK: After the headlines fade, what do you want people to really understand about peacekeeping missions in general?

AL: I think the bottom line of any peacekeeping operation is to create a favorable situation for the local population to develop their own government or a peaceful environment where they can build future prosperity. Peacekeeping missions are supposed to be temporary inter- ventions. Now, temporary can be anything from six months to twenty years, as many places have shown us, but it is a temporary intervention.

BK: How difficult is teaching peace?

AL: I don't think that it is that difficult to teach peace. What is difficult is to make the transition from teaching for war, to teaching or training for peace. And that is a mindset that the military has succeeded in making over the last twenty years in many countries, of making that jump from fighting wars to creating peace. But I think that if you can make that mind shift, you have won the battle. The world is not becoming an easier place. The fact that there are more conflicts doesn't imply that we are not winning the battle, there are just more battles to be fought.

BK: More people are becoming aware that maybe there is a better way?

AL: Yes. I think with the amount of people asking our assistance in training their people to become proper peacekeepers, there is a growing awareness that this is the only way to create peace on earth. It is not the way to fight in wars. But through peacekeeping, yes, that is the way. I want to stress the point: the fact that there are more conflicts does not imply that we are not winning. It is a long-term battle, but we are definitely making progress.

JW: I know your time is short but there is one last question I would like to ask: how do you see the role of women in the DPKO?

AL: Ah, the role of women...I sent a paper to NATO in May, on the Role of Women in Peacekeeping Operations, specifically on the role of military women. I found statistics available that a lot of work is done [by women] in DPKO. They have a focal point for gender. The statistics show you that the UN is very much representative of military women in the world. My final point to NATO was that if they want more women in UN peacekeeping operations, they must have more women in their own militaries. That is the point where you start because the UN is the member states, and the member states dictate the challenges, progress, and development in the UN. That counts for DPKO, and peacekeeping operations as well. The work starts at home.

Col. Annette Leijenaar joined the South African Army in 1974 and became the first South African woman to be enrolled for a degree in military science. After earning a Bachelor's degree, she served as an intelligence officer with the South African Forces in Namibia/Angola from 1981 to 1988. In 1989, Leijenaar earned a Master's in Business Administration from the University of Stellenbosch, and then in 1991, completed the South African Senior Command and Staff Course. Following this, she lectured at the Command and Staff College until she was promoted to the rank of Colonel in 1993 when she became a personal staff officer to the Chief of the South African National Defence Force.

During 1995, Col. Leijenaar was appointed as South Africa's Military Attaché to the United Kingdom. She returned to South Africa in 1998, attended the South African Joint Staff Course and served as a senior staff officer in the Joint Training Division until her appointment to the United Nations.